shooters text

Shooters Information Center

This Page is for the Benefit of Veteran and Novice Shooters of Trapdoor Rifles and Carbines.

Helpful Veteran Trapdoor Shooters

Tony Beck
Charleston, S.C.
Tony Beck Frank Della Torre
Brooklyn, N.Y.
FrankDellaTorre
Ken Smith
Silver City, NM
Ken Smith Ken Lake
Salt Lake City, UT
Ken Lake
Frank Monikowski
Hope Valley, R.I.
Frank Monikowski John Ryckman
Allegan, MI
John Ryckman
Guy L. Struck
Coalgate, OK
Guy L. Struck Toni van de Wiel
Netherlands
Toni van der Wiel
Don Klinko
Norman, OK
Don Klinko Your Name
City, State
e-mail address

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Manufacturers of
.45-70 & .50-70 Trapdoor Cartridges
{Solid Lead Projectiles}


Buffalo Arms
660 Vermeer Court
Ponderay, ID 83852
208-263-6953

Web site - www.Buffaloarms.com
Black Hills Ammunition
3050 Eglin Street
Rapid City, SD 57703-9574
605-348-5150
Missouri Bullet Co.
816-597-3204
Web Site - www.missouribullet.com
Old Western Scrounger
54 Dupont Rd.
Martinsburg, W.V. 25401
Phone - 304-274-0004
www.OWS-AMMO.com
Eldorado Custom Shop
12801 US Highway 95 S
Boulder City, NV 89005
.45-90 Ammo
Ivanhoe's Warehouse Outlet
Box 937
Nutting Lake, MA 01865
888-811-2224

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BUYING SMOKELESS 45-70 LOADS CAN BE LIFE THREATENING

Smokeless powder rounds bought at a gun show!!! The breech block remained in place, fortunately!!

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Books, Newspapers & Catalogs

Strongly Recommended

Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine
Spencer Wolf
Cost - about $20.00
Wolf's Western Trader, 30516 Erin Drive
Lacombe, LA 70445 (985) 882-3401
patwolf4570book@aol.com
www.the45-70book.com
Black Powder Cartridge News
Cost - $20.00 for 4 issues per year
PO Box 1625 Cody, WY 82414
The SPG Black Powder Cartridge Manual
???
SPG Lubricants BP Cartridge Reloading Primer
Mike Venturio & Steve Garbo
$21.95 + $3.50 S&H
SPG,LLC, PO Box 1625, Cody, WY 82414 (307)587-7621
Buffalo Arms Catalog(208) 263-6953
Rapine Bullet Mould Mfg. Catalog9503 Landis Lane-HA, East Greenville, PA 18041 (215)679-5413
Buffalo Arms Catalog(208) 263-6953
NEI Handtools Catalog www.neihandtools.com
Springfield Minutemen Catalog www.springfieldminutemen.com
252-337-6021

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Recommended Antique Gunsmiths

Joe Lozito: 631-242-9782, Long Island, NY
Joe specializes in rust bluing and also makes windage and long range sights.
Recommended by Frank Della Torre.
Bob Hoyt: 717-642-6696, Fairfield, PA.
Bob specializes in barrel and receiver restoration.
Recommended by John Cooley, Tony Beck, and Al Frasca.

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TRAPDOOR SPRINGFIELD TARGET MATCHES


  • (Montana) Quigley Rifle Match - Forsyth Rifle and Pistol Club

    The Quigley Match is held each year on Father's Day weekend at Forsyth, Montana. The targets are steel gongs ranging from the bucket at 360 yards (off hand) to the Buffalo at 787 yards (sitting cross sticks). The match consists of shooting 8 shoots at each of 6 targets, with no sighting shots. Shooters are squadded with 5 other shooters and shoot when their name is called. Most shooters show up a day or two early to get sight settings for all the targets. Dry camping is available at the match area, a cow pasture on the Montana prairie. Forsyth has motels and restaurants, but reservations must be made months in advance. A drawing is held at the conclusion of the match for a Shiloh Sharps rifle, a Pedersolli rifle, and in 2005, a beautiful Ballard rifle. You must be present to win. Special awards are given for Crazy Cora, White Buffalo (over 72 years) original trapdoor shooter, etc. A great event, with close to 1000 people camping out, with 498 shooters in 2005. The new schedule with 2 targets per stage makes it flow very smoothly and a great time is had by all.

  • (Oklahoma) Oklahoma City Gun Club

    The monthly matches at OKCGC are held on the 2nd. Sunday of the month March thru November. The temp. in the AM (around 9:00 to 10:00) must be over 50 degrees or very close to it. Also, in the very early & later months the sun is lower in the sky & the targets do not show up well. Our range faces to the North. The October match had about 30 participants. The web site is: www.OKCGUNCLUB.org

  • (Texas) Long Range Black Powder Target Rifle Tournament

    Program for Ft. Wolters Shooting Sports Club Long Range Black Powder Target Rifle Tournament 28, 29 & 30 November, 2003.
    The matches will be held at the Ft. Wolters Shooting Sports Club, Mineral Wells, Texas. Gate opens at 0700, squadding closes at 0815. Late registration and a practice match will be on Nov. 28th, 2003. Practice will begin at 0830. The matches, on the 29th & 30th will consist of 10 shots for record and sighters at 800, 900 & 1000 yards, in a 30 minute time period for each range. Firing will commence at 0900 each day. All NRA rules for this match will be in effect. NRA membership is required for all competitors. Minimum caliber is .40 with no less than a 400 grain projectile. If you fail to get a score for any range, you will not be allowed to shoot the next range/s for that day.
    Match fees: Advanced registration of $50.00 for the matches (Friday & Saturday only, $30.00), NRA fees and the practice day will be accepted until November 21, 2003. Late entries after this date will be assessed a non-refundable late fee of $10.00. Range info is available at www.fwssc.org.
    Match Director: Steve Urban 10260 Sunset View Dr. Fort Worth, Texas 76108-4074 Steveurban@fireman.net

  • (CALIFORNIA)The Burbank Muzzle Loaders Inc. (web site www.burbankmuzzleloaders.com) will hold their annual 45-70 Springfield rifle and carbine match Sunday September 14, 2003, at their club range in Piru, CA. This is in north west Ventura county. The club also holds matches throughout the year for all black powder rifles and muzzle loaders on the second Sunday of the month. The range is also open to guest shooters each Sunday. Contact Tom Trevor or Don Harpold for information on the range or matches.

  • SOUTH DAKOTA (August) - Annual Fort Randall Springfield Trapdoor Shoot. Sponcered by the 1st U.S. Infantry of Fort Randall, at the Weichmann range just north of Wagner, S.D. Contacts (ask for a flyer): (1) Roger Wiltz, Box 253, Wagner, S.D., 57380, 605-384-3794, rwiltz@charles-mix.com (2) Jim Leines, 605-384-3797, jleines@charles-mix.com. DETAILS: 1st event 20 shots-5 each standing, kneeling, sitting, and prone. Five other events with about the same format. Blackpowder only with cast bullets of the same configuration as issue ammo.

  • FRIENDSHIP, INDIANA (August) National Muzzle Loader Shoot with breech loader events.

  • TRAPDOOR MATCHES IN OREGON: we have been having trapdoor matches in Oregon for years, typically three a year, around Feb, April, and August, at the Tri-county gun club(www.tcgc.org) in Sherwood Oregon, six different targets, from 50 yards to 200 meters, standing, and x-stick, must shoot cast bullet black powder loads(or pyrodex), with stock rifles. Medals for awards typically. Contact Frank Burke, burkefj@verizon.net.

  • If you know of other events, please contact afrasca@erinet.com or call or write Al Frasca at 937-3995002 or Frasca Publishing 3378 Baker Road, Springfield, Ohio 45504.

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    Freeman F. Bull -Springfield Trapdoor Marksman

    In competition for a gold medal offered by the Springfield Armory Rifle Club to the member making the highest aggregate in best ten scores on weekly practice days at 500 yards; each score made with a different Springfield rifle, taken from the daily product without alteration, he made a record which we believe all riflemen will agree entitles him to be classified as one of the best military mid-range marksmen in America. The scores were shot in the four months ending February 15, 1887. They are (based on 5 points per shot):
    Oct. 15, 1886: 49/50; Oct. 22, 1886: 48/50; Nov. 5, 1886: 49/50;
    Nov. 12, 1886: 48/50; Nov. 26, 1886: 49/50; Dec. 10, 1886: 49/50;
    Dec. 17, 1886: 48/50; Dec. 31, 1886: 49/50; Jan. 15,1887: 49/50;
    Jan. 28,1887: 49/50. A total score of 487/500, prone position.
    Taken from the book: The .45-70 Springfield Book II 1865-1893.

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    Directions for the Buffington Rear Sight

    From the 1898, "Description and Rules for the Management of the Springfield Rifle, Carbine and Army Revolvers"

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    Micrometer Adjustor for the Buffington Rear Sight

    From Jack Jaquette and Hugh Harrington. Contact Jack at jackcar@infionline.net if you have questions about the device. Here is how it is to be used: Jack designed this tool (which I call the Jaquette Buffington Sight Adjustment Tool) to solve that problem. It is a micrometer with the anvil removed. At the end he has attached a block, or foot, that fits into the base of the Buffington sight to ensure that the tool is positioned on the sight the same each time it is used. The peg on the side fits into the triangular hole in the slide of the Buffington slider. When the shooter has the Buffington sight slide set at the correct setting for the distance being fired he then puts the sight adjustment tool onto the sight, making sure the peg on the side fits into the triangular hole. He then adjusts the micrometer until the peg is tight in the triangular hole. Then, he locks the tool and removes it. He reads the measurement on the tool - and writes it down. That measurement is the sight setting for that distance; no longer does one need to look at the markings on the sight itself. Next time the shooter wants to shoot at that distance he adjusts the tool to that measurement, places the tool in position on the sight, and finally adjusts the sight to fit the tool. The Buffington sight is now adjusted exactly as desired. If one wishes to raise or lower the point of impact he only needs to change the setting on the adjustment tool by increasing or decreasing the measurement. Roughtly, a change in .01 on the sight adjustment tool will result in a 1 inch change in point of impact at 100 yards. I have found this tool to be invaluable and has increased my enjoyment of the rifle tremendously. Jack is very modest about his breakthrough in design but in a very real sense he has changed the Buffington sight into a micrometer sight. Now our trapdoors are shooting at a far higher level of accuracy than ever before.

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    A Targetized Trapdoor by John Ryckman

    John has described how he has altered a .45-70 Springfield trapdoor rifle to optimize its shooting qualities. He has included a number of photographs to help illustrate the modificatiuons. Please link to A Targetized Trapdoor for details.

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    Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Cleaning

    Don Klinko has written an extensive procedure for cleaning black powder rifle bores. Please link to the last item on the RESTORATION page for details.

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    Marksmanship Tips from David France

    Dave has written three very complete articles on (1) CASTING BULLETS, (2) FLINCHING & JERKING, and (3) MODIFYING LOCKS. The articles are located on the North-South Skirmish Association site. When you call up the site, the three titles appear in the lower left hand portion of the screen. http://www.n-ssa.org/NORTHWEST/Northwest.htm

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    Marksman Tip: Check Your Cleaning Rod Stop

    Tom Trevor and Don Harpold found the following problem that can cause inaccuracy in your rifle. During the September 1999, outing of the Burbank Muzzle Loaders (primarily black powder cartridge shooters) it was noticed that Tom's .45-70 trapdoor rifle had a broken cleaning rod lock(stop). The cleaning rod stop is located in the forestock and held in place by the front band spring and stock recess. Under normal firing, the barrel is not touched by the stop. However, when the stop is broken as in the photograph, the firing recoil causes the rod to move forward which rotates the forward end of the stop up into the bottom of the barrel binding the barrel between the stop and the barrel band. This has been found to cause a drastic fall off in accuracy in rifles known to be accurate shooting arms.

    At the annual September 1999 Springfield shoot, six rifles out of thirty-five had broken stops. It seems the stop would be one of the last things to consider if an accuracy problem develops, but it is something that should be checked. Guns with the broken stop seemed to perform much better after the stop was replaced.

    For more infomation on the problem or the Burbank Shooting Club, please contact Tom Trevor at 818-360-9064 or Don Harpold at Dwharpold@aol.com

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    Marksman Recipes from the Loading Bench of:

    >

    Brian BarrettWilliamsport, PA Brian Barrett
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1884 Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: .461"
    BulletWeight: 500 Grains
    Composition: 20 Parts Lead, 1 Part Tin.
    Mold:
    PowderType: AA5744 (26Gr)
    SpacersThickness: .030" Material. Quarter of a piece of tissue paper (2"x2") pushed into the case to cover the powder using the eraser end of a pencil.
    CaseMaker: Starline. Crimped: Yes
    PrimerMaker: CCI. Type 200. Flash hole opened to .093
    LubricantMaker: SPG
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    This load works well for the days you just don't wnt to bother with black powder and I have had some very consistent groupings with this load. I am still working out the bugs, but I would say over all this powder is a good velocity and pressure comparison to BP.

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    Brian BarrettWilliamsport, PA Brian Barrett
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1884 Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: .461"
    BulletWeight: 500 Grains
    Composition: 20 Parts Lead, 1 Part Tin.
    Mold:
    PowderType: Goex FFG (70 Gr.)
    SpacersThickness: .030" Material. Cover stock to protect bullet base.
    CaseMaker: Starline. Crimped: Yes
    PrimerMaker: CCZI Type: 200. Flash hole opened to .093
    LubricantMaker: SPG
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    concerns
    My expander is oversized at .458", this load averages well at 200 yards and further.

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    Tony BeckCharleston, S.C. Tony Beck
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1888 RRB Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: .461"
    BulletWeight: 405 Grains
    Composition: 95% Lead, 5% Tin. Wheel Weights? OK if mold is big enough and for short ranges only.
    Mold:Home Made 405 Gov. to Springfield Drawing.
    Sized to: .462".
    PowderType: Goex or Elephant Single F (55 Gr.), SR4759 (23 Gr.) or Accurate Arms 5744 (25 Gr.)
    SpacersThickness: For BP about .15". Material: Wool felt pad such as "Wonderwool". For smokeless, no pad is used. Cotton fluff, about 1/6 of a cotton ball(real cotton) is used to retain the powder.
    CaseMaker: Remington-Peters. Crimped: Heavy.
    PrimerMaker: Winchester-Western. Type: LR Magnum for BP, Std for smokeless.
    LubricantMaker: SPG or 50/50 Tompson Center Bore Butter/Bees Wax.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    Most of my shooting is in the 100 yard range, so I prefer carbine ammunition. It is very accurate in rifles and pleasant to shoot. Wheel weight lead is fine for shorter range plinking, IF you have a mold big enough to size bullets .001" over the actual bore diameter. Otherwise stick to 20/1 lead/tin. Wheel weight alloys vary a lot, so consistant hardness is a problem. This eliminates them for longer range use. If all you can get are the greasy yellow Wonderwads, put a sheet of waxed paper between the wad and the powder to prevent contamination of the charge with lubricant. The cotton fluff over powder wad works well for smokeless powder, BUT don't use it with black powder, chances of ringing your chamber are very great.

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    Toni van de WielNetherlands Toni van de Wiel
    Rifle .45-70 @ 50 Meters. Model 1873 Rifle with Buffington Sight; Bore Groove Depth:
    BulletWeight: 405 Gr. HB, not sized.
    Composition: 95% Lead, 5% Tin.
    Mold: Lee 459-405-H.
    PowderType: Goex Cartridge powder. (55 Gr.), use a droptube.
    SpacersThickness: Material: Milk carton wad,
    CaseMaker: Remington, enlarged flash hole, case expanded to .459. Crimped: Normal Taper Crimp.
    PrimerMaker: Federal large rifle.
    Lubricant1/3 beeswax, 1/3 Fat from pork, 1/3 fat from cow.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    For shooting at 100 meters the receipe is changed as follows: The powder is increased to 68 grains. Use a droptube and precompression die. The spacer is a fried beer card (carton under your glass of beer), to prevent the powder from damaging the bullet base. The case is heavily tapercrimped.

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    Tony BeckCharleston, S.C. Tony Beck
    Rifle .50-70 Model 1870 Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: .514"
    BulletWeight: 450 Grains to Govt. Spfd.Drg.
    Composition: 95% Lead, 5% Tin. Wheel Weights? OK if mold is big enough and for short ranges only.
    Mold: Home Made 450 Gov. to Springfield Drawing.
    Sized to: .515".
    PowderType: Goex or Elephant Single F (55 Gr.), SR4759 (23 Gr.) or Accurate Arms 5744 (25 Gr.)
    SpacersThickness: For BP about .15". Material: Wool felt pad such as "Wonderwool". For smokeless, no pad is used. Cotton fluff, about 1/6 of a cotton ball(real cotton) is used to retain the powder.
    CaseMaker: Ballard Rifle & Cartridge Co. or Dixie. Crimped: Heavy.
    PrimerMaker: Winchester-Western. Type: LR Magnum for BP, Std for smokeless.
    LubricantMaker: SPG or 50/50 Tompson Center Bore Butter/Bees Wax.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    Most of my shooting is in the 100 yard range, so I prefer lighter loads. the load above is pleasant to shoot and produces light fouling. Wheel weight lead is fine for shorter range plinking, IF you have a mold big enough to size bullets .001" over the actual bore diameter. Otherwise stick to 20/1 lead/tin. Wheel weight alloys vary a lot, so consistant hardness is a problem. This eliminates them for longer range use. If all you can get are the greasy yellow Wonderwads, put a sheet of waxed paper between the wad and the powder to prevent contamination of the charge with lubricant. The cotton fluff over powder wad works well for smokeless powder, BUT don't use it with black powder, chances of ringing your chamber are very great. WATCH THE HEAD SPACE ON 50.70s, ESPECIALLY SECOND ALLIN'S.

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    John CooleyBristow, VA. John Cooley
    Rifle .50-70 Model 1866 Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: .___"
    BulletWeight: 510 Grains RNFP, size 512, from Antique Guns & Gun Parts of VA 703-4786-6346
    PowderType: IMR-4198 (23Gr).
    SpacersThickness:100% cotton about 1/8" thick or .5 gr., and about 1/2" square.
    CaseMaker: Bell 50-70 Govt., lightly crimped.
    PrimerMaker: Federal. Type: 215 Mag.
    LubricantMaker: SPG.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    I used NEW unfired Bell Brass, ran each case through the sizer die, trimmed each case to 1.730" OAL, and expanded the case mouth just enough to allow the bullet to enter. I weighed every bullet and loaded 5 round loads that did not vary more that .5 gr in weight, weighed each powder charge, and weighed each cotton wad at .5 gr. The cotton wad was lightly pushed down over the powder charge, OAL was 2.250", and did not vary more than .010". Temperature was about +45F and overcast, intermittent rain. This load fired a 7/8" 5 shot group at 50 yards from a bench rest.

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    John CooleyBristow, VA. John Cooley
    Rifle .50-70 Model 1870 Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: .___"
    BulletWeight: 530 Grains RNFP, size 515, from Spfd. Minutemen (704-642-0160)
    PowderType: IMR-4198 (23Gr).
    SpacersThickness:100% cotton about 1/8" thick or .5 gr., and about 1/2" square.
    CaseMaker: Bell 50-70 Govt., lightly crimped.
    PrimerMaker: Federal. Type: 215 Mag.
    LubricantMaker: SPG.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    I used NEW unfired Bell Brass and ran each case through the sizer die, and expanded the case mouth just enough to allow the bullet to enter. I weighed every bullet and loaded 5 round loads that did not vary more that .5 gr in weight, weighed each powder charge, and weighed each cotton wad at .5 gr. The cotton wad was lightly pushed down over the powder charge, OAL was 2.240", and did not vary more than .010". Temperature was about +45F and overcast, intermittent rain. This load fired a 1" shot group at 50 yards from a bench rest.

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    John CooleyBristow, VA. John Cooley
    Rifle .50-70 N.Y. State Remington Rolling Block Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: .___"
    BulletWeight: 480 Grains SWC, size 515, from Spfd. Minutemen (252-337-6021)
    PowderType: IMR-4198 (23Gr).
    SpacersThickness:100% cotton about 1/8" thick or .5 gr., and about 1/2" square.
    CaseMaker: Bell 50-70 Govt., lightly crimped.
    PrimerMaker: Federal. Type: 215 Mag.
    LubricantMaker: SPG.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    I used NEW unfired Bell Brass and ran each case through the sizer die, and expanded the case mouth just enough to allow the bullet to enter. I weighed every bullet and loaded 5 round loads that did not vary more that .5 gr in weight, weighed each powder charge, and weighed each cotton wad at .5 gr. The cotton wad was lightly pushed down over the powder charge. This load fired a 1/2" 3 shot group at 50 yards from a bench rest.

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    John CooleyBristow, VA. John Cooley
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1884 Trapdoor Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: .___"
    BulletWeight: 430 Grains #2RW, from Spfd. Minutemen (252-337-6021)
    PowderType: IMR-4198 (22Gr).
    SpacersThickness:100% cotton about 1/8" thick or .5 gr., and about 1/2" square.
    CaseMaker: Rem 45-70, lightly crimped.
    PrimerMaker: Federal. Type: 215 Mag.
    LubricantMaker: SPG.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    I used NEW unfired Remington Brass and ran each case through the sizer die, and expanded the case mouth just enough to allow the bullet to enter. I weighed every bullet and loaded 5 round loads that did not vary more that .5 gr in weight, weighed each powder charge, and weighed each cotton wad at .5 gr. The cotton wad was lightly pushed down over the powder charge. This load fired a 1" 5 shot group at 50 yards from a bench rest.

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    Bryan Davis Bryan Davis
    Rifle & Carbine .45-70 Model 1873 Carbine, M1884 Rifle ; Bore Groove Depth:______"
    BulletWeight: 480 Grains
    Composition: Pure Lead.
    Mold: Lyman 4570406
    Sized to: .
    PowderType: Goex 3F powder, 44 Gr.
    Spacers None
    CaseMaker: Remington.
    PrimerMaker: Winchester Mag. Pistol Primer.
    Lubricant50/50 Beeswax and Crisco.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    The carbine likes to use the 450 yard peep sight, and the rifle likes the 150 yard sight. Both hold about 1.5" groups at 100 yards.

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    Frank Della TorreBrookyln, N.Y. FrankDellaTorre
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1888 RRB Rifle; Bore Groove Depth:______"
    BulletWeight: 500 Grains
    Composition: 20 parts Lead, 1 part Tin.
    Mold: Rapine 1881 500 grn.
    Sized to: .459".
    PowderType: Goex Cartridge powder, 70 Gr.
    SpacersThickness: .30" Material: Card Wad.
    CaseMaker: Winchester with the flash hole opened to .096". Crimped: no.
    PrimerMaker: CCI Mag. Primer.
    LubricantMaker: SPG.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    The gun shoots well, about 2-3" at 100 yards. Recoil from the bench is stiff, off hand is OK.

    As a general warning, I want shooters in NYC to know that Black Powder is Strictly prohibited in the NYC limits. Black powder can not be sold, or possessed in NYC. If you live in NYC, do your reloading outside of the city. Even outside of the city there may be some prohibitions on using BP. Ask a local gun shop in the area where you decide to do your reloading about BP regulations.

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    Donald W. KlinkoNorman, Oklahoma Don Klinko
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1873 Rifle( 1886 Prod.); Bore Groove Depth:______"
    BulletWeight: 509 Grains (flat point)
    Composition: 20 parts Lead, 1 part Tin.
    Mold: SAECO (Redding) 022
    Sized to: Not Sized, .459".
    PowderType: Goex Cartridge powder, 65 Gr.
    SpacersThickness: .60" Material:Vegetable Fiber.
    CaseMaker: Remington with the flash hole opened to .093" and deburred inside and out. Crimped: no.
    PrimerMaker: Federal 215 Match-Type (GM215M).
    LubricantMaker: SPG.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    Case necks expanded and belled with custom Buffalo Arms expander to hold bullets friction tight without distortion. Primer pockets rectified with primer pocket uniformer by White Tail Engineering. Charge compressed with Buffalo Arms compression die after seating spacer wad. Bullet seated to just cover all lube grooves. Blow tube used between shots. Consistently hit standard silhouette targets out to 500 yards.

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    Ken Lakekandel@worldnet.att.net Ken Lake
    .45-70 .45-70 Model 1873 Rifle(cartouched 1885); Bore Groove Depth: Unknown "
    BulletWeight: 400 grains, flat point design
    Composition: 20 parts Lead, 1 part Tin.
    Mold: Cast from Mid-Kansas cast bullets.
    Sized to:.459".
    Primer: Maker: CCI large rifle
    LubricantMaker:SPG
    PowderSR4759, 25 grains, from Mid-Kansas
    SpacersThickness: not used. Material: None
    CaseMaker: Assorted. I try to load only one brand at a time, but have used all. They don't seem to make more difference than the combination of other factors such as wind, sun in your eyes, temperature, and number of shots fired. Crimped: Light crimp.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    This load uses about 2/3 of the space available in the case, and does not seem to benefit from any filler. I usually try loads at 50 yards, and this I can consistantly shoot groups of 1 1/2". Some of that is probably me. I see some inconsistancy with temperature. As the barrel gets hotter, I see the groups open up. I have tried 0.460 bullets, and when cold, they seem to work the same. I don't have enough experience with these yet to see if it is worth while.

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    Ken Lakekandel@worldnet.att.net Ken Lake
    .50-70 .50-70 Model Remington Rolling Block Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: Unknown "
    BulletWeight: 500 grains, soft cast, used as cast.
    Composition: ?
    Mold: Cast from Lyman mould.
    Sized to:.515".
    Primer: Maker: CCI large rifle
    Lubricant:Maker:SPG
    PowderSR4759, 24 grains, from Mid-Kansas
    SpacersThickness:1/4" thick Dacron. Cut to 1/2" squares pushed in over the powder. Material: Dacron
    CaseMaker: Bell and Bertrum. Crimped: Light crimp to none.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    This load will produce 1 1/2", three shot groups at 50 yards from the bench. The dacron produces lots of residue. Some of the residue is just light ash left in the barrel that can be blown out, and some of it is a hard to remove coating in the forward end of the barrel. I am not completely happy with this wadding, but have not found a better alternative. Dacron melts and the volume of the case returns to normal (almost) while other fillers do not melt or burn, and therefore reduce the case volume which causes the pressures to increase. I am looking for a load that does not require a filler, but I have shot this load hundreds of times with no lasting effects.

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    Mark LandkovHibbing, MN Mark Landskov
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1884 Rifle; Bore groove depth:______"
    BulletWeight: 405 Grains Speer Idaho Terr. bullet.
    Composition: Swaged lead with super tough coating.
    Mold:
    Sized to:
    PowderType: IMR 3031, 35 Gr. Grade:
    SpacersThickness: Material: none
    CaseMaker: W-W or R-P. Crimped: No, bullet seated to crimping groove.
    PrimerMaker: Winchester Type: Large rifle type.
    LubricantMaker:
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    The bullets are coated with a clear, hard coating that cannot be scrateched with the fingernail. the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook shows many loads with IMR 3031. It fills the case rather well, so that any fillers or wads are unnecessary. I tried Hodgdon's 777, and noticed that cases bulged significantly at the head. They were 0.009" larger than the 3031 cases at the head and mouth. I know that primers are not always a positive pressure indicator, but the 777 primers looked more distorted than the 3031 primers. I could even tell the difference when I ran the cases into my RCBS sizing die.

    *****************************

    FiremanCity, State fireman
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1888 RRB Rifle; Bore groove depth:______"
    BulletWeight: 500 Grains RN bullet.
    Composition: 20/1 lead/tin ratio.
    Mold: 1881 500 RN or Lyman 457125CV
    Sized to: Not sized.
    PowderType: Elephant 55 Gr. Grade: BP 2F
    SpacersThickness: .125" Material: Card Wad
    CaseMaker: W-W or R-P .096" drilled out primer channel. Crimped: No, resized.
    PrimerMaker: Federal Type: Magnum 215
    LubricantMaker: SPG lube and Lee Alox.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    I use a drop tube and compress the powder. All of my shooting has been at 100 yards. My accuracy is about 3 inches (MOA).

    *****************************

    John FlynnPhiladelphia, PA John Flynn
    Rifle .45-70 Model 18?? Rifle; Bore Diameter:______"
    BulletWeight: 405 Grains
    Composition: 100% Lead,
    Mold: Lee, Cat. No._____
    Sized to: .458" with flat base.
    PowderType: IMR 4198 Smokeless, 23 Grains. Grade:
    SpacersThickness Material: Quarter of a piece of tissue paper (2"X 2") pushed into the case to cover the powder using the eraser end of a pencil.
    CaseMaker: Remington cases that are sized and flared at the case mouth. Crimped: Bullet seated with a slight crimp.
    PrimerMaker: Remington. Type: Large Rifle.
    LubricantMaker: Blue lube from LBT.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    The tissue paper holds the powder in the bottom of the case next to the primer. With this load, I can get 2 inch groups routinely at 100 yards from a bench rest. Caution: Although this load is relatively light, it may not be safe in all trapdoors. Have a gunsmith check your rifle before firing smokeless ammunition. Also, the small amount of powder in the case has the potential for big problems. It is easy to double charge the case with powder if you are not paying attention. This could be disastrous. In addition, there is some evidence that a small charge of of powder lying horizontally in a large capacity case can detonate as the primer flame shoots over top of it. Hence the tissue paper to hold the powder in a single mass against the primer.

    *****************************

    Frank Monikowski Hope Valley, R.I. Frank Monikowski
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1888 RRB Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: .461"
    BulletWeight: 520 Grains
    Composition: 30 Parts Lead, 1 Part Tin. Wheel Weights? No.
    Mold: Lyman 457125
    Sized to: .460".
    PowderType: Goex (64-65 Gr. Fg) or Elephant FFG (70 Gr.)
    SpacersThickness: .040"-.045" Material: Tablet backing wad on top of powder
    CaseMaker: W-W cases, weighed to +/- 2.0 grams. Crimped: Un-crimped, sized for a "friction" fit (Lyman M-die used for belling mouth).
    PrimerMaker: Federal. Type: 215. Flash holes de-burred, but not re-cut to a larger ID (.080").
    LubricantMaker: Homemade "Pope" type without graphite.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    The barrel needs at least three shots to get warmed-up. Blow tube is used between shots, but no cleaning. I can reliably count on a 1 1/2" group (5) at 100 meters or a 4" group at 200 meters

    *****************************

    Peter NelsonMurrysville, PA Peter Nelson
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1888 RRB Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: .461"
    BulletWeight: 500 Grains
    Composition: 20 Parts Lead, 1 Part Tin.
    Mold: Sized to .459"
    PowderType: GOEX FFG
    SpacersThickness: .030" & .462" in Diameter, Material: Thick Walter's Vegetable-Fiber Wad.
    CaseMaker: Starline nickel plated brass or Winchester-Western. Crimped:
    PrimerMaker: Federal #215 Large Magnum Rifle. Flash hole opened to .096"
    LubricantMaker: SPG BP lubricant
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    The major portion of my shooting, thus far, with both my 1884 Carbine and 1888 Rifle is at 200 yards using a bench rest and iron sights. I load the powder in both cartridges using a 24 " drop tube and I place the heavy taper crimp directly over the front driving band on both cartridges. I use a blow tube after every two or three shots and clean the bore after every 10 with Hoppe's .45 caliber bore snake wet with vinegar based Windex or Butches Twill Patches wet with Windex and a Dewey tempered single-piece steel rod. When at home a thorough cleaning followed by Hoppe's MDL.

    *****************************

    John RyckmanAllegan, MI John Ryckman
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1884 Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: ___"
    BulletWeight: 535 Grains
    Composition: 20 Parts Lead, 1 Part Tin, by weight
    Mold: RCBS 500 BPS
    Sized to: ____". Gr:______"
    PowderType: Swiss 2F, (61.0 grs)
    SpacersThickness .043" Material: Chipboard disc (tablet backer)
    CaseMaker: Remington. Crimped: no
    PrimerMaker: WLR Type: Flash hole standard size, but deburred inside.
    LubricantMaker: Own Mix (JR1)...SPG etc shoiuld work fine.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    Case expander is oversized at .458", so as to not deform the bullet upon setting. The charge is weighed and dropped through a 3/8" copper drop tube of about 20". Charge precompression with a bullet cast in linotype..bands filed off for easy in/out. Bullet engraves rifling about .005" upon chambering. Charge compression/compaction is about .055".

    *****************************

    John RyckmanAllegan, MI John Ryckman
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1884 Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: ___"
    BulletWeight:520 Grains
    Composition: 21 Parts Lead, 1 Part Tin, Wheel Weights? No.
    Mold: Lyman 457125
    Sized to: ____". Gr:______"
    PowderType: Goex Cartridge (68 Gr.)
    SpacersThickness .015" Material: Cover stock to protect bullet base.
    CaseMaker: Remington. Crimped:_________
    PrimerMaker: Federal. Type: 215M. Flash hole standard size, but deburred inside.
    LubricantMaker: SPG.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    My expander is oversized at .458", so as to not squeeze the soft bullet and cause distortion. The charge is weighed and dropped through a 3/8" copper drop tube of about 20". Charge precompression with a 457125 cast in Linotype...bands filed off for easy in/out.

    *****************************

    John RyckmanAllegan, MI John Ryckman
    Rifle .45-70 Model 1884 Rifle; Bore Groove Depth: ___"
    BulletWeight: 398 Grains
    Composition: 21 Parts Lead, 1 Part Tin, Wheel Weights? No.
    Mold: Rapine 460406
    Sized to: ____". Gr:______"
    PowderType: Goex Cartridge (68 Gr.)
    SpacersThickness .015" Material: Cover stock to protect bullet base.
    CaseMaker: Remington. Crimped:_________
    PrimerMaker: Federal. Type: 215M. Flash hole standard size, but deburred inside.
    LubricantMaker: SPG.
    Suggestions,
    Clarifications,
    Concerns
    My expander is oversized at .458", so as to not squeeze the soft bullet and cause distortion. Blow tube used, case left slightly belled. Charge precompressed. At 200 meters, a 12 shot group of 3.5" was obtained on a perfectly calm day (3 fouling shots taken before the measurements).

    If you have a recipe that works in your trapdoor, please submit it to me (afrasca@erinet.com). Please try to answer all the questions in the format. Thanks!

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