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Re: Pre-1873 Carbines

Posted by FrontierWest on Sunday, 13 March 2011, at 6:28 p.m., in response to Re: Pre-1873 Carbines, posted by ken on Sunday, 13 March 2011, at 2:06 p.m.

The reason he did not mention it, is because the occurrence was so small, it did not affect anything. Myself have recovered well over 100,000 45/70 casings and with the exception on some Indian sites, military sites produce very small numbers of extractor problems. Having detected the Rosebud site, and having friends with extensive collections from there and LBH, very few have recovered casings with extractor issues enough to be concerned about. Definitely did not affect an outcome in either battle. One of my first detecting trips as a kid was on the Rosebud and not only did I meet Slim Kobold, JW Vaughn was there too. Later in High School, I serviced Slim's water wells on the ranch. It was during this time he told me that I better hurry and find what I could as he was putting the ranch into an easement with the State of Montana. I looked for years for a carbine he had found and tossed to the side of the field, but myself and others, could never re-locate it. Perhaps it was his way of playing a joke on us? Don't know, and he is no longer with us to tell me. Would be funny if it was just a tall tale by him, but don't think so as he spent hours with us looking for it.

If there was an issue with an infantry arm.. they simply used the ramrod to force it out..early guns. I know there were mentions in the SA and mechanisms were designed to help in extracted and separated casings, but I believe mostly there were talking about casings during the re-loading programs. There is evidence there of the casings separating about a 1/4 inch from the base.. due to "re-sizing" and eluded to by Blunt. I've been working on a post about this all winter. As far as a Benet primed casing doing this. Nope.. never seen one. Seen some that were stuck, some that the rim ripped ,but that too is explained by SA about shooting a lot of rounds and the chamber and barrel being extremely hot. Modern Boxer style casings that are brass and not copper, in my opinion will not shoot or extract the same as the early historical cartridges.

I've seen Weibert's and Pitches' collections (amongst some others)and neither have any extraction issues enough to even warrant writing all this. I'm sure the LBH, may have a few.. but same results. maybe Reno's men had some issues over a few days, but am sure that was not the reason he high tailed it out of the river bottom and up on the bluff. Good thing he has some sort of mechanical problem to blame it on, as his pride was probably stinging soon after and for the rest of his career!

john


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