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Re: Model 1873 questions- XX ser no

Posted by Pete Nelson on Wednesday, 26 May 2010, at 11:30 p.m., in response to Re: Model 1873 questions- XX ser no, posted by Mike on Wednesday, 26 May 2010, at 10:10 a.m.

Hello Mike,

Please see the comments in other related postings by Dick Hosmer and Ernie Brandt regarding the "bayonet" (which should not even fit over the front sight stud or sight blade).

I checked through all four (4) Volumes of the SRS "SERIAL NUMBERS OF U.S. MARTIAL ARMS" and found only ONE (1) serial number in the 187000 series, that being 187587 on a "79C" [a Model 1877 Carbine with the improvements of 1879, i.e., most likely one of the nine (9) variations of the Model 1879 "BUCKHORN" Rear Sight] with a date-of-record of 11-09-1903 and associated with the NEW YORK MILITIA. So there is obviously no reasonable inference which could be drawn between these two guns.

The "C" on the rear sight would be correct (on both the left side of the Base and the right side of the Leaf) and indicates that the range markings should be:

ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE BASE: 100 through 800 yards (in 100-yard increments) with the "B" (Battle Range Setting) at approximately 265 yards.

ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE LEAF: 800 through 1500 yards (in 100-yard increments).

Please see Dick's comment regarding the lack of a "star" on the Receiver. And it is correct (AFAIK) that there were "0" NEW production Carbines produced during Calendar Year 1882 (and 1883 and 1884). The "SWP/1882" cartouche is generally an indicator of acceptance of a Carbine or Rifle refurbished during the 1881-1882 ROA (Repair Old Arms) period following the Great Recall of 1879 when all of the narrow-Receiver arms were ordered to be returned to the Springfield Armory for repair/upgrade. The ornate "fancy-P" (from an ornate Germanic font, I believe) is the last in a series of "Firing Proof" acceptance symbols and is usually about an inch +/- top the rear of the butt-end of the Trigger Plate. The Number "30" you referenced on the Receiver is most likely some sort of Rack Slot Number or inventory symbol but was NOT done at the Springfield Armory.

The "V" (Viewed); "P" (Proofed); Eagle's Head (U.S. Property); and "p" (another Proof mark) would be correct.

The three intersecting holes behind the butt-trap Butt Plate were indeed for the 3-piece threaded steel Cleaning/Ram-Rod and either a Model 1875 or Model 1882 Headless Shell Extractor Tool. The Model 1882 Extractor Tool required that the center Hole (for the last section of the Rod having the button handle) be drilled deeper than the other two since the Extractor Tool had to sit in top of the Rod section, whereas it could pass down through the enlarged center hole of the Model 1875 Extractor Tool. The hinged trap-door in the special Butt Plate kept the 3-piece Rod and Extractor Tool in place.

The "U.S./MODEL/1873" inscription stamped on the color case-hardened Breech Block by the Hinge is correct. The "U.S./MODEL/1873" stamping inscription was used all the way through the end of Model 1877 Carbine production (officially 1884) and right on into the Model 1884 production up to S/N circa 366000 (about mid-1887) when it was replaced with the "U.S./MODEL/1884" which ended in 1889, there being no more Carbines produced during the 1890-1893 timeframe (during which only the Model 1884 Cadet Rifles and Model 1888 Round Rod-Bayonet Rifles were being manufactured). For all intents and purposes all "TRAPDOOR" manufactuire ceased by the end of 1893.

The additional non-Springfield Armory "S.C." stamping below the "U.S." is generally accepted as standing for "South Carolina".

The 22.0" in-bore dimension (from Muzzle Crown to the face of the closed Breech Block) would be correct.

As to the lack of a "star" at the end of the character string of the serial number, I cannot answer that one. I would refer you Dick Hosmer's reply.

And regarding a value "guess-timate", we would have to have good-quality detailed photographs and that is something I am not qualified to do. I would suggest that you peruse through the inventory of Carbines which Al has here in the ARMS section of the "CATALOG & ADS" portion of this WebSite. His high-quality color photographs show a number of views with excellent detail to use as a comparative reference to your gun.

And I'm afraid that is about we would be able to tell you about your Model 1877 Carbine. Thanks for your excellent posting.

PETE


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